OpenMandriva

[rolf]

Hi

The "Moondrake" beta is private project of Per Oyvind.
The fact that it appeared in Association's system was a big surprise and breaks basic rules of the Association, where no member, whoever that might be, can take solo decisions. It also contradicts the arrangements, fixed and accented once again during Technical committee meeting held on March 24th (where for now by "Technical committee" we mean all active developers).
(Note: the accented rule was that developers act as a group and take common decisions in consensus. However, the beta name decision, including making all relevant changes in the common system, was not communicated by Per Oyvind to his colleagues, nor to council, and was taken by him alone).

This issue was attended yesterday at Extraordinary council meeting.
The results of the meeting will be available shortly in a summarized form.
Logs are available here: https://wiki.mandrivalinux.org/index.ph ... il_Meeting

Best regards

Secretary of OMA

<MatthewDawkins>
<GuilhermeMoro>
<bero>
<southerncross__>
<Pulfer>
<denis_silakov>
<fedya>

These, iianm, are some of the developers in attendance, in agreement that steps to prevent Per destroying the Association need be taken. I think most attendees are developers.

Show me one distribution of relevance to us, basically consumers, that is produced by one individual. Despite the ignorant scoffs, OMA is legitimate, has had substantial legitimate development by volunteers and a couple of paid employees since last June, has rules, that can be further developed, that must be followed. Boo-hoo that POK and Perens can lead the ignorant by their noses to spread this FUD that you find so noble. Get over it. Go with Moondrake and follow Moondrake rules. There's still choice.

[viking60]

I do not know exactly who in that group made up OpenMandriva "on his own"? But I am pretty sure that the name came from within that group and not from the masses.
Also this group pretends to be democratic when they announce the "get a face" competition and then reserve the right to potentially pick something other than the top vote.
http://openmandriva.org/en/content/get- ... inish-line
I clearly miss their love for following democratic rules and not doing things on their own there. But it will be acceptable if they are open about the process and publish both the top vote and their decision (even if it is the same).
Then Jkerr reports that they are going for more closed and exclusive lists....

They must be doing something right though since you are so convinced. We will see if this association administration is able to produce a distro. It is as simple as that.
I have not been in dialog with them; I gather you have so you might have more say in this.

I have only been in dialog with proyvind - here.

Still - we both agree that the world needs Mandriva in some form.
Edit: But you are the Guru so I will do as you say and follow Moondrake if it ever comes to exist . then we can have a competition on who gets out there first - or at all.
If they both do we both win.
Peace man

[proyvind]

Heh, funny... ;p

I think I answer most stuff in general quite well in my latest post to cooker etc., should be sane and sober enough IMO.

For the council, as was decided during last cooker/TC meeting, it doesn't have the right/ability to make any of these decissions for the distribution, as these needs to be made by cooker/TC itself. The council simply cannot suddenly decide to govern it based on their interpretations of.

You haven't heard the last on this yet by far...

[viking60]

I bet you are right about that.
What I find tragic is that there has to be a French revolution (Polsk riksdag) in Mandriva every time. No wonder you guys do not have the time to finish a distro.
But since you are here:
I do think that the Association administration picked the name and made it look like they only accepted the wishes of the community - that is wrong (or have they not decided yet?)! What makes you picking Moondrake on your own right?
Rolf may have a point there (however badly tempered the formulation)?
In any case we all know it should have been Macdriva

[proyvind]

Well, "OpenMandriva" has been categorically rejected on several grounds from the very beginning (most essential argument against it is that it's a name we must license from Mandriva to use, not one we may freely use as we'd like, ie. in the context of free software where the matter of licensing is essential and not limited to source code only, it should be obvious enough why not being acceptable), "Moondrake" is the only candidate name which has sufficient support and legitimacy, making it still a default candidate in absence of any other decission as we're now forced to rename immediately per Charles' orders.

Just as I announced and with the exact same intentions, I've made no claims of any final name and the change I've made is merely just a commit in order to move forward while also forcing through a new discussion, trying yet again to drag it to the appropriate place.

Notice btw. how they found it acceptable to suddenly just make what they themself obviously (considering their existing rationale) has made a final decission on new name by themself without any involvement of cooker at all: https://abf.rosalinux.ru/openmandriva/r ... 959f668866

This is not something that the council is in any position to do, and the decission needs to take place in cooker/TC, where the council doesn't hold any greater influence on it than anyone else and needs to follow existing etiquette of cooker justlike the others.

With so few of the people on the council actually being involved with the distribution project itself, the absurdity of these recent events of theirs should be all too embarassingly obvious..

[viking60]

Sounds reasonable. For pits sake call it "Apfelstrudel" as a working title and go on with the distro while that name discussion goes. Uh come to think of it that is exactly what you have done right?

[proyvind]

Sounds reasonable. For pits sake call it "Apfelstrudel" as a working title and go on with the distro while that name discussion goes. Uh come to think of it that is exactly what you have done right?

Yeah, exactly, and the rebranding work really needs to be done ASAP, especially since Charles is pretty much giving me a takedown notice of any new release which it hasn't been done for already...


Btw. it would be really a lot more helpful if you could try participate in these discussions on cooker rather than outside of it, all of this mess is constantly coming fro and revolving around that any discussions of and decissions about cooker never takes place in cooker, so you might imagine my frustration with all of these crap, and I'm also delighted of people actually sanely trying to discuss the matter here, but it would still hold greater relevance/importance if conducted on cooker list though..

Notice my last mail to cooker calling for dicussions on cooker regarding the subject in response to the summary of decissions coming from the council, any participation with people sharing their view (even rolf;) are more than welcome and would be extremely appreciated.

[Blackcrack]

Hy Per,

a idea for more easy Branding, maybe a folder with underfolders,
Defaultwallpapers/KDE/Gnome/Other, Drakconf-iconthemes,
Installer-Pictures/wallpaper/other, Userpictures and the much many more other too
for brandig and a batch-script-file
( maby "include-the-theme.sh", "start-branding.sh" "letzrock.sh" or so)
who move it on the right place and create rpm's for include,
for have easy to create different branding with different themes.
So can download a Brandig-default-themefile.7z or tar.gz
as a artworker and create different themes therewith.
who can upload at last the the developer and Distrocreator
or directly mailing the file .. themefile .

so can say, we need a honeymoon-theme for the next releace
and can make different honeymoon themes ... therewith ..
Or a Apfelstrudel-themefile.. , Heavymeatal-themefile .. or else ..
and the best, at last can you take and let run easy the bach-script
for insert the theme to the release..
it is this a suggestion ?

best regards
Blacky

[viking60]

Yeah, exactly, and the rebranding work really needs to be done ASAP, especially since Charles is pretty much giving me a takedown notice of any new release which it hasn't been done for already...

Ah even rolf might accept that
(But if you act like Louis 16 then I am pretty sure that he still is happy with a French revolution )

Btw. it would be really a lot more helpful if you could try participate in these discussions on cooker rather than outside of it, all of this mess is constantly coming fro and revolving around that any discussions of and decissions about cooker never takes place in cooker, so you might imagine my frustration with all of these crap, and I'm also delighted of people actually sanely trying to discuss the matter here, but it would still hold greater relevance/importance if conducted on cooker list though..

Notice my last mail to cooker calling for dicussions on cooker regarding the subject in response to the summary of decissions coming from the council, any participation with people sharing their view (even rolf;) are more than welcome and would be extremely appreciated.

Well as I have said before rolf will be a more valuable asset than me because he has all the Mandriva experience in the world.

I have however suppressed my reluctance towards automated mails/spam and subscribed. Now where can I read the history/archives?

[viking60]

Hm
I have a question regarding this

Article 1 – Establishment

A voluntary association governed by the French law of 1 July 1901 and the French decree of 16 August 1901 (the “Association”) is established by and between the undersigned persons and persons who will later adhere to these articles of association.
Article 2 – Name

The Association’s name is Open Mandriva.

A: I must assume that this is all legal including the name - So how can Charles deny them the use of the legally acquired name OpenMandriva?
Can the naming of the association not be legally transferred to a distro If the association so desires?
(Strictly leagaly spoken - I know that this is not how it is done in FOSS communities unless the community accepts it).

[jkerr82508]

I believe that Mandriva SA licensed the use of the name to the Foundation. Obviously, there would be restrictions, stated in the licence agreement, on what OM could do with it. So far as I know the licence agreement has not been made public.

Jim

[rolf]

Now where can I read the history/archives?

https://ml.mandriva.com/wws/arc/cooker

(But if you act like Louis 16 then I am pretty sure that he still is happy with a French revolution )

Although I've stated that I've followed the transition of community Mandriva to OMA from the beginning, although I've repeatedly provided linked references to parts of that perspective, the tweet heads and magazine readers who prefer to flood the forum with one FUD-picking conjecture after another and clever little fantasies instead of actually reading source make sensible dialog difficult. Try to bring more than just what you read from Per or what you *think* is going on if you want to refer to my contribution. For example:

Hi,
I think we've spent way too much time on this already, so this is going to be
my last comment on the issue:

While it may not appear like this at first, I believe that the current
situation is actually the best outcome possible.

There are large disagreements between Per Øyvind and the council on the
project's governance, name, branding, both internal and external
communication, etc.
There's a lot of (though not 100%) overlap on technical issues.

So the best way is actually to create 2 projects that are independent of each
other (let's refer to them as Moondrake and OpenMandriva for now, though both
names can still change - the final decision is up to the projects) -- the
projects can share a lot of code and work together where there is agreement,
and agree to disagree (and use different packages) where there is
disagreement
- and both projects can come to their final decisions in different ways.

There is even agreement in the council that the association's infrastructure
can be used to build and host Moondrake in addition to the association's
release.

The action of excluding Per Øyvind from the OpenMandriva association may seem
like a "punishment", even a harsh punishment, by some, but that's not what it
is and not what it is intended to be: This is as much about getting the
council off Per Øyvind's back as it is about getting Per Øyvind off the
council's back.

Per Øyvind needs to be able to do what he does best - developing what is
consistent with his ideas - without having the council or anyone telling him
that something cannot be done in that particular way.
The association on the other hand needs to be able to build something that
matches its ideas even if some of them are considered bad or outright stupid
by some, and it can't tolerate effectively becoming the joke it has been
accused of being by making a decision just to see that the decision was
overruled by those implementing it.

Most developers are somewhere between the 2 positions and I fully expect
developers to contribute to both projects (I, for one, will help out both
projects if I'm wanted there).

ttyl
bero